Elizabeth Alleges Fraud by Karl Loren -- False Charge!

 

Karl Loren


-----Original Message-----
From: B.J. Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:08 AM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Message From the August 28, 2002 Issue Of The Wednesday Letter

 
Karl Loren,
One of your associates, Dr. David Williams, recently sent me two bottles of Joint Advantage, according to the invoice, this was a three months supply and they had me set up for "easyship" which the lady explained was a "reorder" without my permission every three months.  The amount of $117.97 was taken out of my debit card.
 
I did not order these tablets!!!!!! I ordered Flax seed from this man back around the first of the year.  I have not even looked at his emails and can not imagine why they sent this shipment.  The only thing I can conclude is that they are CROOKS!!!!
 
I didn't even have enough money in my account to cover this expense (illegally charged to me) and so my bank took money from my guaranteed check cashing money which I will have to pay back with interest!
 
I wanted you to know what kind of people you are dealing with and this has made me trust NONE of you and your associates.  I am telling everyone I know about this, friends, family and every email that I can find!
 
They ask that I return the tablets in order to get credited!!! I said, "Are you serious?"  I didn't order these and I'm not going to the trouble to mail unsolicited mail back to you!!  That's the law!  So, sir, I'm out $117.97!  I live on 600.00 a month social security!!!  The lady assured me that they had removed my debit card number from their files.  They better have or they will be reported to the proper state and federal Affairs departments as well as the US postal service.
 
Elizabeth J. Hughes
P.O. Box 378
Edwards, CO 81632

Dear Elizabeth,
 
I have no "associates" and I do NOT sell or recommend "Joint Advantage."
 
I do not know a "Dr. David Williams."
 
Your debit card charged?  I cannot believe that Vibrant Life charged your card for such a fictitious transaction.  If it were true your credit card statement would show "Vibrant Life," and then it would be I who was defrauded -- I want to know about this.
 
I do not sell Flax Seed Oil in any form.
 
You may have been defrauded.
 
Since you are suggesting that I was a party to this, I demand to know more.
 
You accuse me of defrauding you -- that is a false accusation.
 
I will now publish YOUR allegation, and MY response on one of my pages, and expect to hear again from you with the particulars as to who this "Williams" is -- he is NOT an associate of mine -- I have no "associates" and my credit card clearing services is not shared with anyone.  We control ALL credit card clearances from here.
 
So, I expect a response, and eventually, an apology.
 
Regards,
 
Karl Loren
-----Original Message-----
From: B.J. Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:10 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: reply David Williams scam

 
Dear Karl Loren:
Thank you for promptly answering my email regarding Dr. David Williams. 
 
Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough.  One gets befuddled when so wrongly treated.  I was not accusing you of passing on my debit card. As I explained in my email, I had ordered Flax seed from Dr. Williams several months ago and not from you!  Not at that time, or any other time, did I look into the joint repair type supplements that was charged and sent to me recently.  I think we ordered the Flax seed back in February and have not had any business with him since that time.  Naturally, you can imagine my shock at receiving the joint repair tablets and when I called regarding this order, to let them know that I had NOT ordered the supplements, to find out that I would have been sent the same on a regular basis!
 
When I first got mail from Dr. David Williams, it was right after I had ordered from your company and as his literature was very similar to yours.....I somehow got the impression that he was an associate of yours...just selling different supplements.  I had never heard of him before and didn't know how he could have gotten my address if not from you.  You must admit this is a strange coincidence.
 
Karl, I do think you need to publish something that says you are not associated with this person (Dr. David Williams) and do not have any interest in his company. I also sent the same email that I originally sent to you, to every email address listed on his site!  I have not yet received a reply.
 
I apologize for thinking he was an associate of yours, as you say he is not.  In the meantime, I want your customers, who may have had advertisement from this man as I did, to know what happened to me and to beware.
 
His website is:  www.drdavidwilliams.com and phone number: 1-800-888-1415  address: 
Mountain Home Nutritionals
One Executive Way
Forrester Center, WV 25438-1070 
 
Again, I apologize for assuming he was an associate of yours.  My friend, Frank Kennedy and I have always been satisfied with your services and the supplements we have purchased from your company.  I might add that I do enjoy and appreciate your email health newsletters.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth J. Hughes

Dear Elizabeth,

Your apology is very nicely received.
The web is a strange place to browse -- each screen comes to you in an instant, when it may have originated thousands of miles from the just previous screen.
With the flatness of that screen, and the limit on impact, all webmasters can use words to create the impression of honesty, etc.  It is hard to tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys.
A one-man company can have what appears to be an enormous business.  It takes patience and skill to detect the frauds from the honest web businesses.
I hope you will continue to do business with us.
I wouldn't, now, attack Dr. Williams simply because I don't have the evidence, other than from you, of what he may have done.  I would not, for instance, start listing people who are NOT associates of mine.  Wrong Public Relations.
I am content to speak the truth and to answer instantly any suggestion that I am not doing an honest business.
I wish you good success in getting a resolution to that problem you had with Joint Advantage.
let me know how that goes?
Thanks,
karl Loren

 


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