A Friendly MD Corresponds With Karl Loren About Heart Disease

Dear Malcolm,

Surely the Egyptian mummies, the plaque, who could possibly tell if the plaque was INSIDE a cell, or not.

As my article shows, the membrane of a cell is so thin that it cannot be seen in a microscope -- it is 100 times smaller than a human hair. So, the plaque is "there" but the question is where is "there?"

Heart disease didn't exist several hundred years ago. I've written extensively about this, but I suppose I should publish it, also, as a newsletter.

Here are the pages where I describe this data:

Mortality Statistics
... ginning 1960). Census In Brief 1994. Births 3,979,000. Deaths 2,286,000.
Marriages 2,362,000. Divorces 1,191,000. National statistics ...
www.oralchelation.net/data/VitalStatistics/data8.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

New Revelation -- Karl Loren's Change Of Emphasis On Heart ...
... disease. I dispatched them with ease. Many of these false claims involved
data as simple and objective as the census statistics. Many ...
www.oralchelation.net/karl/NewRevelation/data3.htm - 84k - Cached - Similar pages

Historical Diets
... to. This is "true" but too limited a view. Census statistics paint
a more complete picture. Click Here to see the section on the ...
www.oralchelation.net/data/HistoricalDiets/data10.htm - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

Data Section
... Here is its very first contractual requirement: ...8... US Census Bureau Population
And Mortality Statistics 1790 to Present, The exact source of data, and the ...
www.oralchelation.net/data/ - 46k - Cached - Similar pages

Correlation of Rates of Coronary Artery Bypass Surgery
... with given training. The number of persons in each age, sex, and race
category was obtained from census data. For white patients ...
www.oralchelation.net/heartdisease/ ChapterNine/page9c.htm - 99k - Cached - Similar pages

Correlation between zip code and type of heart treatment
... sex, and race category was obtained from US. census data. STATISTICAL
METHODS. Age-and sex-adjusted hospitalization rates based ...
www.oralchelation.net/heartdisease/ ChapterNine/page9a.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

Historical And Autopsy Data About Heart Disease
... Particularly back in the 1800s when the death certificates showed almost ZERO deaths
from heart disease and when the census statistics on "cause of death" did ...
www.oralchelation.net/data/AutopsiesInHistory/ data9.htm - 41k - Cached - Similar pages

Particularly on this page: http://www.oralchelation.net/data/VitalStatistics/data8.htm with links to census bureau tables, many in PDF format.

The evidence is based on census statistics in the US.

The typical medical argument has been that a few hundred years ago the average life expectancy was 40 years, or so, and that heart disease didn't start killing people until older years. So, heart disease actually "existed" but people died of other things first.

But, the truth is that much of the low life-expectancy was because of the very large number of deaths in birth, or within the first year of life. These moved the average way down, indeed, to 40.

But, the census statistics for the 1700s and 1800s show large numbers of people who, in fact, reached 70 years.

In fact, the death rate for 70 year old women (if I read the below correctly) was lower then than now. In other words, 70 year old people died less often than the same age group today. here is that table, if only a bit hard to read:

As soon as "blood flow" was discovered by Harvey, it was logical to assume that any stop in blood flow would cause death -- so the theory was inescapable.

The numbers, however, just don't show it as a cause of death.

In the census statistics that showed cause of death, heart problems were not mentioned -- instead infectious diseases were shown.

Even in the early 1900s the death rate from heart disease was lower, by far, than now.

I see that you admit to "rare" but "rare" is far different than the current "number one cause of death!"

Certainly, to understand heart disease you would have to look at what has changed over the last couple hundred years, and one large change would be the amount of heavy metals in the body --- an enormous change, and increase.

Regards,

Karl

-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm Kendrick [mailto:malcolm@llp.org.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:37 AM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter on Cholesterol

Dear Karl,

I do not believe that you can possibly state that heart disease was not present hundreds of years ago? Virchow, in 1850, clearly describes atherosclerotic plaques in human arteries. Plaques are clearly present in the arteries of Egyptian mummies. James MacKenzie (a famous UK physician) writes clearly about CHD and angina in factory workers at the turn of the century 1900/2000 in the UK. I would agree, I think, that CHD was pretty rare prior to the early/midle part of the twentieth century, although evidence that CHD was, or was not, present, is pretty thin. It is difficult to diagnose a disease if you don't know that it exists. But to state that it didn't exist, to me, represents a completely unsustainble claim. The evidence for, or against, doesn't really exist.

I am a little puzzled by your requirement that plaque forms within the cell membrane. I don't understand this at all. From my knowledge in this area, nothing could form within a cell membrane. There is no space, no place for any extraneous molecule of anything.

Regards

Malcolm

Dear Malcolm,

I am very aware of Virchow: I refer to him in my book, on the web, written in 1994. Here is an excerpt from Chapter 8.

http://www.oralchelation.net/heartdisease/ChapterEight/page8.htm

Many years ago doctors were fond of excusing their ignorance, and their failure to cure heart disease, by saying that it has always been with us and that people have to die of something, so why not heart disease!

Dr. Kenneth Cooper’s book is so misleading that I’m going to quote some of it as an example of the trash you might buy in the bookstore if you didn’t have this warning:

Like many mass killers, cholesterol was born into the world under rather innocent, unpretentious circumstances. The earliest known scientific investigation into this substance, which would later be identified as one of the deadliest forces in our bodies, dates back to 1733.

. . .

[Dr.] De la Salle conducted his experiments [1769, on cholesterol] in the political climate that preceded the mass killings of the French Revolution. But as he prepared the first pure cholesterol by crystallizing a gallstone in an alcohol solution, the researcher was unaware that he was confronting a lethal force in his own laboratory.

. . .

Despite these breakthroughs, the killer continued to do its deadly work completely under cover for the next forty years. To be sure, heart trouble abounded in the Western world during this period. But the major cause of coronary disease didn’t as yet even have a name.

. . .

In a related development in 1856 -- one which was destined to converge with cholesterol research about fifty years later -- Rudolf Virchow, a prominent German pathologist, kicked off the study of atherosclerosis. Specifically, Virchow observed that significant changes occur in artery walls during the "hardening" process, as plaque builds up and clogging of the blood vessels occurs. [Click Here for data on why Virchow's results don't support Cooper's claim.]

. . .

The great killer had finally been given its true name.

[Karl Note: The inference that heart disease has always existed, and that Dr. Virchow proved this by "seeing it" in 1856 -- that inference is completely false. Click here for the truth about Dr. Virchow.]

So, the master planner’s story is that heart disease has always been with us, always caused by killer cholesterol, and the only reason why it wasn’t discovered earlier was that people, years ago, died early in life from accidents and infections and did not live long enough to die from heart disease.

They also asserted that even when people DID die of heart disease, the doctors of that day didn’t know how to recognize it.

It was certainly true that the statistics for causes of death prior to 1900 did NOT include heart disease.

When they have finished with these arguments, you see, they can dismiss those faddists who claim that heart disease is a manmade disease -- a product of the modern life style.

Doctors didn’t want to admit that because that would take heart disease out of the realm of drug-treatment and surgery, and acknowledge that diet, exercise, even vitamins, might be useful treatments.

These lies about the historical existence of heart disease are easily disproved.

Illustration by Francis Livingston

First, there are many population groups even today where heart disease is completely unknown! These are people living on diets very different from the Coke and French Fry diet of modern America. Dr. Price did the most famous research on this. Click to read about his research. Why do you think McDonalds' Fries taste so good? Is it the "natural goodness" of potatoes? No way! Click here to read the truth.

For instance, until their diets were influenced by Coke and French Fries, the Eskimos ate a daily diet which included large quantities of blubber -- a very saturated fat, very high in cholesterol. Heart disease was completely unknown among the Eskimos until they adopted Western ways with diet and life style. Coke has such an evil history that you would wonder how anyone is willing to work for that company. Click here for that story.

Heart disease had been unknown in China until recently. Almost one billion people there had no influence from the Coke and potato chip diets of the Western world. The poor in China, it’s true, ate little meat, but there were millions of rich Chinese too, who ate lots of meat and they didn’t die of heart disease either.

Here’s a quote from the book of Dr. Price:

The Japanese who normally have a very low rate of heart attacks are no different from other people when they move to Hawaii -- and drink chlorinated water; the Masai tribesmen of Kenya have almost no heart disease although they eat at least as much cholesterol as most Americans -- but drink no chlorinated water; coronary heart disease is unknown among a group of 500 poor Irish farm workers studied by famed Dr. Paul Dudley White while being widespread among their chlorine-drinking brothers in the United States.

The truth is that heart disease was unknown in the 1800’s. It first started appearing when the Western diet changed to more sugar in about 1500, and then drastically about 1920. By 1930 heart disease was fairly common.

Heart disease has been brought on man by man himself!

An honest group of scientists would have looked for, and found, exactly what changes in the diet have contributed what parts of the increase of heart disease. Personally, I think sugar is the biggest culprit of all! Click here for my detailed article on diet.

Many orthodox doctors don’t want to admit diet is the cause because such an admission would suggest that there could be a reversal of whatever was done, by man, to cause heart disease in the first place.

The doctors would rather claim that heart disease has ALWAYS been with us and therefore we need more money to do more research to find different drugs which can "cure" this cause of death.

The war on AIDS will never be won partly because it is so profitable to the researchers to continue research. Click here for my article on this.

Dear Malcolm,

How could Virchow, in 1956, detect the difference as to WHERE the plaque was formed.

He described a change in the wall of the artery. That is rather vague -- since there are several layers of artery.

In any event, he could not possibly distinguish between "plaque" (if that is what he was looking at) INSIDE a cell and plaque that is mostly now reported as "coating" the inner lining of the artery.

However, I accept and admire Virchow for introducing the concept of stages of disease -- in his time the death rate from heart disease was very low, compared to now.

So, whether heart disease actually existed hundreds of years ago, or not, is not as important as accepting the fact that the rate of heart disease has greatly increased and that the current rate is not "natural."

As Dr. Virchow said, these diseases are "man made" in that they come from "external influences."

Toxic metal is a very new external influence. Stress is not.

So, how does this seem now?

Karl Loren

Dear Malcolm,

Dealing with only one of your comments:

I haven't said that, and hope it doesn't look like that.

What I've written, repeatedly, is that the "plaque" forms INSIDE the cells as opposed to in the inner "channel" of the artery. Inside the cell is very different from inside the membrane. The cell can easily expand to accommodate increased calcium (plaque) with cholesterol or anything else that might be mixed in with it.

These seems rather clear on this part of my web page:

Next to the images below are the comments in the original source, in blue, with a link to that source. Here is that next image:

However, as we get older, lipids or fatty substances (cholesterol and triglycerides) are deposited as fatty streaks. The streaks are only minimally raised and thus do not produce any obstruction or symptoms. (click here)

I make a big point of it, but be sure you realize that these "fatty streaks" are the beginning of "plaque" and they are "deposited" on the inside wall of the inner layer. You can guess that these "fatty streaks" could become more numerous -- and actually start to cause a blockage of the artery.

Sure enough, here is the next image:

Patients with one or more risk factors for coronary artery disease are susceptible to the increased buildup of fatty layers, known as atheroma (pronounced athe-a-roma). This buildup of material begins to encroach upon the inner channel and starts to interfere with the free flow of blood through the coronary artery. (click here)

While this is called "atheroma" when it becomes larger it is known as "plaque."

You can see it building up to block the inner channel so that blood doesn't flow easily through that area.

Plaque Now you can see the plaque increase in size and starting to cause serious blockage of the artery.

This is SO logical, and SO easy to explain -- it is a shame that this is not a true explanation of heart disease.

As atherosclerosis progresses, fibers begin to grow into and around the fatty layers of atheroma, causing the blockage to harden and turn into a plaque (pronounced plak). The enlarging plaque increases the encroachment into the inner channel of the coronary artery. When the channel is reduced by more than 50% (of the diameter) the artery may become obstructed enough to decrease blood flow to the heart muscle during times of increased need (exercise, emotional stress, etc.). During such times, the blood pressure and heart rate are both elevated and increase the need of oxygen and nutrients by the heart muscle. (click here)

Here it is! The blockage is now complete. This would be called 100% blockage of whatever artery is involved.

If ALL your major arteries were like this, presumably you would be dead from a heart attack or stroke.

You can guess, without further data, that this so-called "plaque" is plenty large enough to be detected with some sort of device -- such as the Magnetic Resonance Imaging machine. After all, the larger arteries (near the heart) are about the diameter of a wooden pencil -- so the "blockage" would be almost that thick. The MRI would see this heavy density material (calcium) in the area where the inner channel was supposed to be. The MRI would see the three various levels of the artery as less dense material, so the MRI would see the differentiation of density -- the MRI would "see" the calcium (perhaps with cholesterol mixed in, of course) clogging the inner channel of the artery.

It looks pretty logical, doesn't it!

The drawings above are the conventional view of the LOCATION of plaque. My comments should make it clear that I disagree.

Later in the article I lay out all the logic as to why it CAN BE inside a cell, rather than the above.

The cell's calcium pump is damaged by free radicals. The pump can no longer keep the calcium out of the cell -- the outside calcium concentration is 10,000 times greater than inside the cell. So, the cell gets filled with calcium, enlarges in size, and stays that way until the free radical damage lessens or stops, allowing the cell to rejuvinate, the calcium pump gets back to working, the calcium is removed from inside the cell, and behold, the plaque has gone.

Again, how else could chelation (either IV or oral) account for its results of "plaque removal?"

Karl Loren

-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm Kendrick [mailto:malcolm@llp.org.uk]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:06 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter on Cholesterol

Karl,

To an extent, it is not worthwhile arguing about whether or not CHD existed hundreds of years ago. The evidence, such as it is, can be interpreted in many different ways, and cannot be scientifically validated. I could just as well state that it was common, as you could state that it was uncommon, and the argument would not move forward (unless one of us were to invent a time machine).

What is more interesting is to look at data that is more recent and robust.

If you were to convince me that heavy metals, or toxic metals, were responsible for CHD, then I would ask you to explain the variation in CHD rates throughout the world in the last fifty years, and causally relate this to the level of toxic metals in the environment.

For example, in Russia, the death rate from CHD doubled in four years during the 1990s. Is there any evidence of increased heavy metal toxicity in this population.

Alternatively, the rate of death from CHD in Finland (and the USA) has fallen by 60% and 40% respectively since the 1970s. Is there any evidence of reduced metal toxicity.

Japanese, who move from Japan to America, retain the Japanese rate of CHD (if they retain a Japanese lifestyle). They develop the same rate of CHD as the surrounding population (if they adopt a Western lifestyle). This is completely independent of diet. How does metal toxicity explain this.

Asian Indians living in the USA have three times the rate of CHD of the surrounding population 50% of them are vegetarian and most of them retain a traditional Indian diet. How can metal toxicity explain this?

Why, for example, do Lithuanians have ten times the rate of CHD of the French? Can metal toxicity explain this? I could go on and on. But I cannot see how metal toxicity fits the pattern fo CHD throughout the world. if you can clearly demonstrate how it is - causally related - in all countries in the World, then I will accpet that your hypothesis is correct.

Regards

Malcolm

Dear Malcolm,

I agree with you on the number of incidents of heart disease in the past.

I also agree that finding links to the source of toxic metals would be a valuable thing to do. That is on my list of research.

For now I have found it enough to simply note that most of us have large amounts of metals in our bodies. Silver fillings, as you know, are half mercury. I had my silver fillings replaced many years ago. Gasoline used to contain lead, filling the air with metal. Paints used to contain lead. Much water still does.

The government "allowed level" of lead is still much too high -- so I think the sources of metals coming into the body are easily found currently.

But, you are right. It would be of interest to find sources of metals in less "civilized" places, and in past times.

I don't have any full answer to that, just now.

You must be familiar with Dr. Denham Harmon, father of the notion of the pathology of free radicals. This is a subject that hardly ever intrudes into the practice of medicine, while it is well understood amongst many scientists.

I would have to spend the same amount of time looking at the various instances you cite as I have for the US statistics.

But, it would be a valid exercise for me.

However, I have exposed the false statistics of the American Heart Association -- a detailed article at:

http://www.oralchelation.com/heart/heart.html

The death rate from heart disease is NOT decreasing in the US!!

You'll find, down that page, that the then-president of the AHA admitted in a public meeting that the statistics being published by the AHA had been false for a long time, and that, even, the reason was probably that the AHA wanted the death rate to look like it was improving because of the protocols promoted by the AHA, and thereby get more government funding!

I also spent several months, as an economist, working in Ethiopia with the UN for Africa, with statistics and know how absolutely false they are from many African countries -- being political wishes, not reality.

In any event, I am appreciative of your continued willingness to dialogue, and your points are well taken.

I have several research projects on my desk just now. One big one, not yet done, is to write the "ultimate primer" on free radicals -- just to explain them simply and thoroughly for non-technical people.

I will probably finish my research in time for my next newsletter -- on fibromyalgia -- the "invented disease."

I would be delighted to continue this dialogue in any way that you find of value and interest.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm Kendrick [mailto:malcolm@llp.org.uk]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:30 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Dialogue

Karl,

I thought I should start e-mails afresh. The last one was getting a bit unwieldy.

If you have a chance to read Part Two of the book that I sent you, you will see that I too consider free-radicals to play a key role in CHD. If heavy metals have an impact on free-radical synthesis, then it is biologically plausible that they will have a role, both in 'damaging' the endothelium and creating increased blood coagulation.

What I discovered in my research is that, when platelets start to stick together (first part of clot formation), they release free radicals. Free radicals 'stimuate' if that is the right word, lipoproteins in the blood to act as lipid surfaces on which blood clots are brought together. Free-radials also increase 'oxidative stress' knock-out NO synthesis within the endothelium, and stimulate other clotting factors.

However, in my hypothesis, the factors that primarily stimulate free-radical sythesis are: hyperglycaemia, raised blood cortisol, hyperinsulinaemia, hyperhomocysteinamia etc. All of which are stiumated by eating whilst under stress.

So, you and I agree on the central importance of free radicals. I suppose that where we disagree is in the primary factor(s) that lead to excess free-radical production. There is a huge amount of evidence supporting (to choose one factor) hyperglycemia as the/a primary cause. Hyperglycemia is found in syndrome X/type II diabetes, and is also present in individuals who are put under stress in the post-prandial period. Equally, there is no doubt that post-prandial 'spikes' of glucose are much more damaging that a generally rasied blood sugar level.

Anyway, all of this takes a great deal of time to explain. But it is all there in the information that I sent you (along with all of the references)

Where we certainly do agree is that the diet-heart/cholesterol hypothesis is absolute junk.

Regards

Malcolm

Dear Malcolm,

This is a very welcome message. I've got a busy schedule today and probably won't respond in detail, but I appreciate your willingness to carry this forward.

You've previously mentioned some things you were going to send?

I've not seen any of those yet?

I'll be back on this, perhaps tomorrow.

My staff won a "contest" by achieving high sales for one day, Monday, at almost $6,000. The reward is a spa for all of us and then a fancy restaurant, Korean, where they serve all sorts of raw meat for us to cook at the table. I am currently eating all raw -- raw eggs and raw meat -- so tonight's dinner will be a great pleasure with the variety of raw meat they have available.

Regards

Karl

June 15, 2002
Dear Malcolm,

Do I understand, below, that you are sending me part of your Book?

It occurs to me that much of your concept of heart disease may well be based on "studies" whereas I, not having that background, go on the basis of "logic."

I start with an "assumption" (as fact) that you probably don't assume -- that IV chelation therapy truly "works," however you want to define work. At a minimum I would say that it removes metals.

Anything after that must be based on logic and science.

There must, then, be a link between the metals and some "X Factor" that causes the symptoms.

Since when the metals go away the symptom goes away.

The "X Factor" as far as I can see is that metals in the body increase the number and activity of free radicals and that free radicals cause SUCH damage in the cells of the arteries as to reduce circulation.

This is simple, and elegant, statement.

Since I believe that the increase in blood circulation is well proven, then I have to look at the link between the change in circulation versus the change in presence of metals.

I know of no other linkage than "free radicals" and "free radical damage" to individual cells.

If you are coming from a viewpoint that IV chelation (or oral chelation) do NOT improve blood circulation, then that would be the primary piece of data to confirm or reject.

I deal with observed data at the most basic level -- anecdotes, indeed -- but all science is based on observation of data and my data is no less valid than something in a rat or test tube.

My data is that thousands of my customers report improved blood circulation. IV doctors certainly have a much larger field of proven success than I do.

Are these observations somehow flawed?

There MAY be additional causes of heart disease, perhaps some that are not affected by IV chelation, but the overwhelming success of chelation therapy suggests that the mechanism I've described must be the major one to consider.

And your conclusions, based on your data?

Regards,

Karl

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