 |
Karl Loren |
Phillip H. Morrison is an ex-MD, who was responsible for deaths because he prescribed Valium. He spent time in jail, also, because he killed one of his angry Valium patients. He came to Karl Loren, seeking help, and started well, but ultimately, he could not admit that he was actually responsible for the death of these people. Thus he could not complete the action I could have helped him with. Nonetheless, this is an interesting exchange and you'll see how he ended up being unable to be helped.
Karl Loren
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip H Morrison
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:07 AM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: MSM
Dear Karl,
Fascinating report.
Someplace in the N.T. book of REVELATIONS is stated
that the "leaves of the trees" were for the healing of
the nations.
Perhaps you are starting to unlock this secret.
May you have every blessing!
Phil Morrison, x-MD
209 Amity Drive
Bristol, TN 37620
My MD license was removed 8 years ago.
My mismanagement is abysmal.
Food stamps help.
Dear Phil,
Well, sir, I feel so strongly about psychiatric drugs, including Valium, that my entire vitamin company refuses to sell any of our products to anyone who is taking any such drug.
People often write to ask me for help, perhaps on getting off some drug.
I can help.
But, I refuse to help until the person has done the following:
1. He must stop taking the drug, completely, before I will offer advice or vitamins.
2. If, as is often the case, he tells me that he is addicted, and can't get off, then I insist that he go to the doctor who prescribed the drug and demand help in getting completely off the drug.
3. If that doctor does that? Great. I'm then willing to assist and sell my vitamins.
4. If the person is not even willing to try? I have nothing further to do with him.
5. If, as is often the case, he goes to the doctor and the doctor refuses to help? I then demand that he give me the name of that doctor. I will publish that doctor's name with my derogatory comments, and THEN I'm willing to help the person get off drugs -- but I still won't sell him any vitamins. My ONLY help, then, is for him to get off the psychiatric or street drugs.
6. ONLY when he is off drugs will I help further.
For a person who sells or prescribes these drugs? That is one of the worst crimes I can contemplate -- a mortal sin, besides.
I've never had an ex-drug-prescribing doctor ask me for any help before.
I am willing to help, but now there are some demands.
I will be willing, if you are, to explore with you what YOU can do to make up for the damage you caused to those persons to whom you gave Valium. There is no such thing as a "reasonable" dose of this type of drug.
Your own transgressions against the basic moral code must be acknowledged and amends made.
If this doesn't anger you, or scare you away, write and tell me what you think.
Cordially,
Karl
February 6,
2002
Dear Phil,
Great!
I may have seemed rather brutal, but I wanted to be sure that you would go along with the help I would give you -- and that would be, first, to "save your soul," as they say. I wouldn't use that phrase, but it may have a useful meaning here.
While you and I are, with this process, busy saving your soul, you will probably have other turmoils in your life -- debts, etc. I would suggest that handling this issue is more important, but you will undoubtedly also have to handle other things.
May I suggest that, knowingly or not, when you prescribed Valium for someone, you were harming that person.
A person who harms another could be called an "enemy" to that person.
I believe, and urge you to accept, that all beings are basically good -- so that an act of harm, an enemy act, must be some sort of deviation from the natural self.
Your task, whether it takes two minutes or many days, is to think about, and respond back to me, as follows:
"Find out who you really are?"
Give me your thoughts, even questions, on that question, and we'll move along.
Your progress will be as fast, or as slow, as your messages. I will normally respond within the same day, often within a few hours.
Your answer will be something like: "I really am ......." and tell me and explain it to me.
I can give you some advices on this, but you will benefit much more if it is YOU who understands the question and comes up with the answer.
Write! I'll respond.
Cordially,
Karl
Well, this promises to be an interesting dialogue.
Keep in mind that I have a particular type of answer I am looking for, from you. The answer, itself, could be worded in any of many ways, but there is a concept that I want to see expressed.
The first part of that concept is now satisfied. You have acknowledged that the prescribing of Valium was harmful. I would add, perhaps unnecessarily, that it was undoubtedly not illegal.
We are dealing here with moral issues, not legal ones.
While you have acknowledged the "harmful action" I am sensitive to how and why you say that. To say that you "should have heeded the advice" and then quote only the rather vague generality that drugs are bad?
That could be a cop-out, a justification, none-the-less.
The fact that God, or the Bible, says that something is "bad" is not sufficient in my mind.
To truly acknowledge that Valium is bad I would like to see you address the specific effects caused by Valium.
While I would agree that "drugs are bad," that statement is much too much of a generality to be useful.
I have, for instance, many, many pages about the harm done by Prozac -- none of that harm depends on a claim that "all drugs are bad."
Take a look, at:
http://www.oralchelation.net/data/Lilly/data6.htm
I would like you to re-address the issue of "Valium is harmful" taking a more scientific and practical approach.
You see, if we are addressing moral issues, to admit too readily that you were wrong is almost like saying that you were not at all wrong -- or, only wrong in the sense that all men are bad.
I don't buy that.
I would have a great deal to say about "soul" and your other questions, and will be glad to get back to those, but another of my policies is, get the question answered, one question at a time.
So, please take another look at the "harm" (?) done by Valium, and see how real you can make this for yourself.
Believe me, we'll have plenty of space covered by soul when we get to it.
You wrote:
These are abstract wanderings! Fun to follow. I will enjoy following those, but if I am to be helpful to you, it will have to be on a disciplined path that I control.
We go back, then, to what harm have you caused by prescribing Valium???
Regards,
Karl
OK. That sounds fine to me.
That was part of the first question of: "Find out who you really are?"
You wrote:
I __DO__ believe we were all created good, however.
So, the question remains, "who were you 'being' when you prescribed Valium?"
A person can change beingnesses with some ease. Perhaps some are difficult to change.
A person who has a child can BE a father, and ten minutes later, in a different environment, BE a cook, and another day BE a medical doctor. We, each of us, can have many different beingnesses, and "put them on" like a hat, for a time. There would probably be some basic beingnesses -- that are included in many other beingnesses. The beingness of being of the male gender would not be one you could change, but others may be changeable. The beingness related to physical things would be much less important than those related to spiritual and moral values.
And, if you are no longer "that" being (person) (who prescribes Valium) then "who are you now?" or
"Find out who you really are?"
You can see that with a small change in grammar, this is similar to the question: "Who am I?"
Underlying this concept is the assumption that you have some basic beingness, from which you departed, assumed a different beingness at the time you prescribed Valium.
These questions originate from a philosophy that teaches that you assume (take on) a beingness, and from that beingness you "do" various things. If what you "do" is harmful, then there was some "beingness" at the time from which the harmful "doingness" originated.
If that is so, then it would be useful to figure out "who you really are" -- taking into account that you were "created good."
We can later get into much more about the scope of a philosophy that teaches the meaning of: BE, DO and HAVE.
Regards,
Karl
To truly acknowledge that Valium is bad I would like to see you address the specific effects...
A year old todler ingested 2 ten mgm Valiums, and I sweated it out FOR SURE with him. Called the Company. They just said to watch him, make sure he was breathing without obstruction. He recovered in a couple hours with no ill effects observable. Not so fortunate was a 28 year old girl who abused alcohol on top of several Valiums. Her brain circulation must have been very low, for she was nearly a vegetable for several years. Very pitiful. Just sat there and drooled.
The following is from "MEDICAL MINISTRY"
page 227-8, by Ellen G. White in
1905. She appears to
have been inspired. She never finished
the 3rd grade and wrote ?? 40 or more books.
If you have the right connections, you can
enter the vault and examine them...
"The Prevention of Disease and Its Cure by
Rational Methods"
"Drug medication is to be discarded. On this point the conscience of the physician must ever be kept tender and true and clean. The inclination to use poisonous drugs, which kill if they do not cure, needs to be guarded against. Matters have been laid open before me in reference to the use of drugs. Many have been treated with drugs and the result has been death. Our physicians, by practicing drug medication, have lost many cases that need not have died if they had left their drugs out of the sickroom. "
Am I guessing this rings a harmonious chord in your heart? :)
phil m
Dear Phil,
Good words!
I had just sent you my last reply, when yours above arrived, so there were messages crossing in space.
With this letter I'll sending along an article that might appeal to you -- about Hypocrates
I look forward to a continuation.
regards,
Karl
February
8, 2002
Dear Karl,
Your article:
The family physician is not far behind the psych!
In times past the doctor wanted to cause a good effect, and often did. Except for the discovery of the importance of sanitation, and the discovery of antibiotics, medicine has hardly made any headway against causes of death.
As he failed more and more often, the family doctor gave up the "good" part of his purpose, and settled for causing ANY effect. That’s where modern medicine is today -- dramatizing a strong need to cause any effect, good or bad, and blinding itself to the difference.
Loved it.
A few more good words... perhaps somewhat random, it's in the wee hours of the morning, like 3:22 :)
To obey nature's laws is a duty we owe to ourselves, to our fellow-men, and to God.
To preserve the powers unimpaired, one must observe strict temperance in the use of all that is good, as well as total abstinence from everything that is injurious or debasing.
Many are considered learned in the sciences who do not understand the laws that govern their own being. Intemperance is seen everywhere, and how few realize the fearful results that are sure to follow. Education on this line is sadly needed; for intemperance is on the increase, in spite of the effort put forth to prevent it. We should gain knowledge in regard to what and how to eat and drink, that we may have both mental and physical health, and thus he fortified against this great evil.
E. G. White
Teaching by Example
In his association with those whom he meets, the canvasser can do much to show the value of healthful living. Instead of staying at a hotel, he should, if possible, obtain lodging with a private family. As he sits at the table with the family, let him practice the instruction given in the health works he is selling, holding up the banner of strict temperance. As opportunity is offered, let him speak of the value of a healthful diet. He should never be ashamed to say, "No, thank you; I do not eat meat." If tea is offered, let him refuse it, explaining that it is harmful, that though for a time stimulating, the stimulating effect passes off, and a corresponding depression is left. Let him explain the injurious effect of intoxicating drinks, and of tobacco, tea, and coffee, on the digestive organs and the brain.
Right physical habits promote mental superiority. Intellectual power, physical strength, and longevity depend upon immutable laws. There is no happen-so, no chance, about this matter. Nature's God will not interfere to preserve men from the consequences of violating nature's laws.
Right physical habits promote mental superiority. Intellectual power, physical strength, and longevity depend upon immutable laws.--CTBH 28, 1890. (CD 29.)
Physicians should seek to direct the minds of their patients to Christ, the Physician of soul and body. That which physician can only attempt to do, Christ accomplishes. The human agent strives to prolong life. Christ is life itself. He who passed through death to destroy him that had the power of death is the Source of all vitality. There is balm in Gilead, and a Physician there. Christ endured an agonizing death under the most humiliating circumstances that we might have life. He gave up His precious life that He might vanquish death. But He rose from the tomb, and the myriads of angels who came to behold Him take up the life He had laid down heard His words of triumphant joy as He stood above Joseph's rent sepulcher proclaiming, "I am the resurrection and the life."
Phil
February
8, 2002
Dear Phil,
I would typically relish an exchange of stirring dialogue on the type of philosophy you are quoting -- I assume not only from White, but the Bible.
And, I may yet relish this exchange with you.
There is a danger here, however, for you to get caught up in the ideas of OTHERS when it is your own, personal thoughts that I would like to address.
Clearly "your" thoughts may well reflect the ideas of others, and, in fact, part of my help to you may be to allow you, help you, see what concepts you hold that come from others, and what concepts may be truly inherent in YOU, personally. A common mistake is to THINK that some idea is yours, only to find that it was your mother (or preacher) who pounded those ideas into your head -- they possibly being false notions when compared to your very personal experiences.
In other words, the great bulk of "learning" is from second-hand or even third-hand experience.
The best learning is from your own experience.
You cut down a tree, observe the rings, or the sap running, and you start to draw some conclusions from these personally observed data.
Or, some other person does this and tells you about it -- this would be second hand learning.
Or, some person does this, tells another and it is the "other" who then tells you.
These vias would be very often found in the realm of religion and philosophy.
One person has a vision of God, and tells others, who tell you??
Wouldn't it be far better for YOU to have your own vision?
I have had my own visions. I may share some of those with you, but the far more important task I have for myself is to help you have your own visions. That is what is ahead for you -- I hope NOT to teach, but to suggest points of view.
Here is something I wrote at: http://www.oralchelation.net/heartdisease/ChapterSixteen/page16.htm
Picture two men, each of them has driven his car to the very top of a high mountain. They stand on that top, separated by only 25 feet.
From this mountain top one can see vast distances of mountains and valleys -- of clouds and trees -- or soaring eagles and fluttering butterflies.
Both men are facing the same direction, yet one sees vast expanses of beauty while the other, a few feet behind, inside the men’s rest room, sees only the toilet!
It’s a matter of viewpoint. Don’t judge your fellow or his data until you get in his same viewpoint. Come with me, try out a new viewpoint! You are almost there -- it may take nothing more than a shift of a couple feet!
I would rather not TELL you about the vistas and sights, but suggest you get into a viewpoint where YOU can observe this, and have your own experience.
So as you contemplate my question on, "Find out who you really are," I will be prodding you to answer from personal experience, and whenever you, rather, seem to rely on "some authority" (even God, if the source is some preacher rather than your personal experience) I will question the logic of that authority, if that seems the right action to me.
For instance, you wrote, probably quoting someone (?):
To obey nature's laws is a duty we owe to ourselves, to our fellow-men, and to God.
And, I would ask, "Where do you find 'nature's laws'?" And, "Who says that it is my 'duty'?" But, we could wander ceaselessly down that path, possibly with enjoyment, but not with the enlightenment that I seek to offer.
So, I enjoy reading what you send, but truly want to read YOUR personal thoughts, based on YOUR personal observations and experiences.
So, "Find out who you really are?"
Joy!
Karl
February 8, 2002 1:58 PM
Dear Karl,
You wrote:
Clearly "your" thoughts may well reflect the ideas of others, and, in fact, part of my help to you may be to allow you, help you, see what concepts you hold that come from others, and what concepts may be truly inherent in YOU, personally. A common mistake is to THINK that some idea is yours, only to find that it was your mother (or preacher) who pounded those ideas into your head -- they possibly being false notions when compared to your very personal experiences.
DEAR KARL,
Well yes. :)
I think of people I know, who have had various experiences. These people place nearly everything on these, their personal "experiences." Is this safe? Is there an evil force out there, (who/that) may cause something in the way of false experiences?
WHAT IS THE STANDARD OF TRUTH? Personal experiences?
If a new claim is presented, that does not agree with previously established truth, then one may ask if the discrepancy is sufficient to cause the rejection of the new claim. (A certain scripture comes to mind.) :)
Kudos for you, if you guess it. :)
phil m
February 8, 2002 2:00 PM
Dear Karl,
You wrote:
"One person has a vision of God, and tells others, who tell you??
Wouldn't it be far better for YOU to have your own vision?
I have had my own visions." ...Karl
INTERESTING. (Speaking of your own ideas...)
I feel a rapid spurt of personal growth coming on, thanks.
Am I better off to have lots of information? Well, depends. :)
Sometimes I discern where people are coming from, spiritually. You also?
I'm having some original thoughts (visions?) lately, as far as designing a pocket laminated ruler set (cm and inches, on the left and right edges) with slogans showing above shirt pocket level.
These slogans are intended to make people ask questions. For example the first one will likely be:
MAKE IT A RULE
NEVER READ
THE BIBLE.
That's all the viewer will see sticking above the shirt pocket, Karl.
Below that, their curiosity will be satisfied when I hand it to them, and they read:
Without asking the Holy Spirit to reveal
to you, the intended truths of Scripture.
Well, that's a start. I have well over a hundred other one-liners to apply to both sides of the remaining
card, such as the following:
The Gospel contemplates
complete recovery from
all hereditary and
cultivated defects.
Hope this has not been boring...
phil m
February 8, 2002
Dear Phil,
I'm not much into scriptures.
But the quote from Jesus, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free," comes to mind and I would love, right now, to develop that thought fully with you. It is dear to my heart.
But, more importantly, as I've said, such would be a flight into philosophy leaving behind the important work you should do.
Seeking these philosophical flights of fancy is usually nothing more than wanting to avoid the assignment. So, I will not respond to your questions other than to urge you back to the basic question, "Find out who you really are."
So, these last two messages are, indeed, not boring, but they are not either helpful.
I will not become stern, yet, but gently suggest that you address the question at hand.
Regards,
Karl Loren
Perhaps I should call it not a vision, but an impression.
February 9, 2002
Dear Phil,
What to say!
Is this statement, "I am a bag of dust, " supposed to be real, or mystical?
For this particular exercise your words must have meanings we can agree on -- in fact all communication is based on common reality for individual words.
For such an exercise, the dictionary must become the senior guide.
One of the problems of the Bible, surely, is that different people read various passages and come up with different understandings -- it may seem simplistic, but it is not, to say that understanding a sentence utterly depends on a agreed-upon definition of the individual words.
Let's look at the sentence: "I am a bag of dust"
Here, for instance, is a page from the on-line American Heritage Dictionary:
| Search Results for “bag” |
|
1)
bag. The American Heritage® Dictionary
of the English Language: Fourth
Edition. 2000. ...Nautical The sagging or bulging part of a sail. 4. The amount that a bag can hold. 5. An amount of game taken or legally permitted to be taken. 6. Baseball A base....
2)
bag lady. The American Heritage®
Dictionary of the English Language:
Fourth Edition. 2000.
3)
bag of waters. The American Heritage®
Dictionary of the English Language:
Fourth Edition. 2000.
4)
bag people. The American Heritage®
Dictionary of the English Language:
Fourth Edition. 2000. |
Those links should be working in this page. In my exercise, which I told you goes by my rules, we use ordinary meanings of words -- if we are to communicate.
So, of the various categories of "bag" above, the first seems most likely?
| The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. |
| bag |
| PRONUNCIATION: |  b g |
| NOUN: | 1a. A container of flexible material, such as paper, plastic, or leather, that is used for carrying or storing items. b. A handbag; a purse. c. A piece of hand luggage, such as a suitcase or satchel. d. An organic sac or pouch, such as the udder of a cow. 2. An object that resembles a pouch. 3. Nautical The sagging or bulging part of a sail. 4. The amount that a bag can hold. 5. An amount of game taken or legally permitted to be taken. 6. Baseball A base. 7. Slang An area of interest or skill: Cooking is not my bag. 8. Slang A woman considered ugly or unkempt. |
| VERB: | Inflected forms:
bagged, bag·ging, bags |
| TRANSITIVE VERB: | 1. To put into or as if into a bag. 2. To cause to bulge like a pouch. 3. To capture or kill as game: bagged six grouse. 4. Informal To gain possession of; capture. 5. Slang a. To fail to attend purposely; skip: bagged classes for the day and went to the beach. b. To stop doing or considering; abandon: bagged the idea and started from scratch. |
| INTRANSITIVE VERB: | 1. To pack items in a bag. 2. To hang loosely. 3. To swell out; bulge. |
| IDIOMS: | bag and baggage 1. With all one's belongings. 2. To a complete degree; entirely. bag it Slang 1. To cease discussion of an issue: Finally in disgust I told my debating opponent to bag it. 2. To bring along one's lunch, as in a paper bag: I don't like cafeteria food, so I always bag it. in the bag Assured of a successful outcome; virtually accomplished or won. |
| ETYMOLOGY: | Middle English bagge, from Old Norse baggi. |
| OTHER FORMS: | bag ful
—NOUNbag ger
—NOUN |
| Source |
And, so we find that your usage of "bag" seemed to be a noun, and the usual choices of a noun definition for "bag" are above,
Fine literature, probably including the Bible, often seeks a level of communication that requires far more than dictionary definitions. So, for instance, you could consider the skin of your body to be a "bag" within definition 1A, above. But, that usage is NOT shown in the usual dictionary. You then get into the question of whether your usage was intended to be "figurative" or "literal," and as you continue down these many paths you find communication becomes harder and harder.
If we were to subject "dust" to the same rigors of precision, I can see where ALL matter could be referred to as "dust" but that meaning, again, would not be in the usual dictionary.
When you use the phrase "Spirit of God" you are uttering nonsensical sounds! The word "of" here implies possession, and if you try to use grammar and common meanings to this phrase, you would be saying:
"God exists" (but there is no definition of God)
"God 'owns' or 'possesses' a Spirit" (There is, of course, no definition of Spirit)
"In the 'Spirit' of God" -- such a phrase beggars the imagination as to meaning. Does "in" mean the usual definition of "within?" How can you be "within" (is this physical? some unknown aspect of 'non-material'?) something like a "spirit" which, itself, is not defined, and relates to another word, "God," which is, itself, not defined?
The phrase is meaningless except in emotional assertions.
So, you have given me an "answer" that really only has meaning to you, and for which I have to guess and speculate.
The exercise I have set upon you will never complete if we cannot communicate.
Giving valium to a person who then commits suicide, and coming to the recognition that you might have some personal responsibility for the death of another human? That is a very real statement. Every word there can be defined using a standard dictionary.
Accepting responsibility for the death of another human? That is not easily done.
One can say, "Yes, I caused that death!" but then fall back on all sorts of complexities of word usage, and Bible quotes to justify your actions, or truly deny any responsibility.
Another, very common, form of denial of responsibility, is to go far in the other direction, saying, "Yes, I am responsible for every feather that ever dropped from any sparrow!"
Sparrows were considered to be among the least of God's creatures. In Jesus' time, Jewish children caught these small birds, plucked them, and tied a few together to sell in the marketplace for a bit of change. Jesus referred to this practice when He used the sparrow to illustrate the love of God for the persecuted, saying, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will...Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows." [Mt 10:28-31; see also Lk 12:4-7] (source)
Apparently God is taking responsibility for the death of every sparrow. You could, likewise, take such responsibility -- but it is a farce for you to do that. You cannot deny your responsibility by saying that you are responsible for the fall of every feather.
IF we are to continue, Phil, then it can only be on the basis of using words that we can each understand by use of standard dictionary terms.
Cordially,
Karl
PS: PreScript :)
Phil
February 9, 2002
Dear Phil,
I am deliberately going to NOT answer you on this.
If you are God, then you do not need my help.
I am NOT asking your help.
We have started this, I hope, with your indication that you would like my help.
My help can ONLY be delivered on my terms -- not within some rules you wish to apply.
I have indicated that I am NOT willing, now, to travel the many interesting metaphysical, or religious paths which could be traveled.
The chore for you is simple.
You have these choices:
1. Forget the whole thing, for any reason you wish. Don't write.
2. Tell me that there is something you don't understand about what I have written about THE question. I can probably clear it up.
3. Answer the question, "Find out who you really are."
4. If I cannot understand you, because, for instance, you use words in ways that are not supported by the dictionary, then this process goes nowhere.
Cordially,
Karl
February 9, 2002
Dear Karl,
You wrote:
I am deliberately going to NOT answer you on this.
If you are God, then you do not need my help.
February 9, 2002
Dear Karl,
You wrote:
You have these choices:
1. Forget the whole thing, for any reason you wish. Don't write.
2. Tell me that there is something you don't understand about what I have written about THE question. I can probably clear it up.
3. Answer the question, "Find out who you really are."
4. If I cannot understand you, because, for instance, you use words in ways that are not supported by the dictionary, then this process goes nowhere.
Cordially,
Karl
February 9, 2002
Dear Phil,
I'm sorry that I cannot be of help to you.
If you cannot answer my question with words that can be understood, using common dictionary definitions, then we cannot communicate.
Karl Loren
Recieved.
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Copyright © May 20, 2008 6:25 AM by Karl Loren on behalf of Vibrant Life, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Permission is granted for non-commercial downloading, copying, distribution or redistribution on two conditions: One, that some form of copyright notice is included in every copy distributed or copied, showing the copyright belonging to Vibrant Life, Burbank, CA, at www.oralchelation.com . The second condition is that the material is not to be used for any purpose contrary to the purposes and objectives of this site. This permission does not extend to materials on this site which are copyrighted by others.
